Our Talk With Ignorance
We apologize for any grammar issues or punctuation. This is a real conversation we had with someone on our comment board. Not edited nor changed in any way. We couldn’t prove ignorance or a general sense of the Republican mind set any better than this. Enjoy!
Him: Gays have all the rights they’re going to get. They do not deserve anything more than what WE already give them
Right Off A Cliff : does that give gays the right to determine what rights you deserve?
Him: Not at all. The gays have all the rights that are guaranteed under the Constitution. Anything else falls under the 10th Amendment and must be determined as a privilege given by the States/people. i.e. marriage and driving are privileges not rights.
Right Off A Cliff: That still does not give a state the right to violate the Constitution. The stance against same-sex marriage is religion based and the first part of the Bill of Rights states the freedom OF religion, which can also mean the freedom from religion.
As our country is not based on the Christian religion any laws put forth set upon them is a direct violation of this.
Right Off A Cliff: Oh, and until very recently federally they were denied the right to serve in our military, which is not a state issue.
Him: Actually not everyone who’s against gay marriage has a religious reason behind it. Also, there’s no violation of the 1st Amendment since the Federal Government isn’t attempting to establish a national religion. The states have the right to declare a State religion and many of them have. i.e. the Bible Belt.
The US is based on Christianity. Always has been. The Pilgrims were Christians, majority of the Founding Families were Christians, majority of Americans have been Christian until the 1980′s. (Give or take a handful of years). Many of our laws and moral fabric of America is based on the 10 commandments. i.e. Murder is illegal; Thou shalt not kill.
Also, many religions and cultures do not tolerate gays. Christians are just the ones who aren’t scared to voice their opinions on the matter. They’re also the ones who get demonized for practicing their 1st Amendment rights.
Him: I agree with DADT. It benefited the gays as well as the straights. It protected the gays from harassment. It didn’t keep them from serving. It just kept them quite about their sexuality. Which in many cultures, including the USA until this recent forced tolerance, is an abomination and goes against the norm.
Right Off A Cliff : you’re missing the point. A state can not violate federal laws. It can not legally pass a state religion and if it can it’s symbolic and can not be enforced upon its people. Just as say Texas can not declare Baptist its state religion than ban alcohol consumption. We don’t see where this is hard to understand.
No, it is not based on the Christian religion. The Treaty of Tripoli is a prime example to where our 2nd President of the United States, and a Founding Father, directly states “In no way is the United States of American founding on the Christian religion”. Just because the PEOPLE are doesn’t mean the government is.
Now you’re arguing what most humans see as decent. Murder is seen as wrong by nearly everyone regardless of if they have faith or not. And while some laws are based upon Christian (or other faiths ideas, since Muslims believe murder is bad as well are we based upon their faith as well?)
You’re reaching…badly. The one thing you fail to understand is reality. Numerous quotes from our Founding Fathers stating this nation is not based on the Christian religions and the VERY simple fact to understand that no state can pass laws that violate the federal Constitution or Bill of Rights.
Just as a state can’t ban abortion, that’s federally protected. It can’t require its citizens to be Baptist, that’s a violation. It can’t ban guns (if it’s a liberal state) that’s protected. Just because the 10th Amendment states that each state has certain rights does NOT mean that those states can violate the Constitution. Segregation taught us that.
It’s shocking how people like you can’t understand that.
By your “logic” a state can do anything they want. Well if that’s the case let’s go ahead here in Texas create a Texas section of the Baptist religion, pass a bunch of laws in its faith and force its citizens to follow them and they’ll be happy right?
Oh wait, they can’t…because states rights do NOT include the right to violate the Constitution.
Here’s a simple formula to understand:
Constitutionally and Federally protected rights > States rights
Not greater than or equal. Not less than. GREATER THAN. A state can pass whatever law it wants but if it violates our Constitution it isn’t legal.
Him: You’re missing the point that there is NO federal law being violated by any state. The state’s actually upholding the 10th Amendment which is a Constitutional law and those trump any federal law. The state religions aren’t forced on anyone and never would be since it’s Christianity. We don’t force conversations anymore. Unlike some religions, but a thread for a different time.
The People is the Government. That’s the greatness of living in a Republic. No matter how many times the founding fathers mentioned that. It doesn’t change the fact that when the majority of Americans are of a similar mindset, the Government is to uphold that mindset. The majority of Americans have been Christians since day one. We allow other religions to practice here as long as they do not attack our main religion. When Presidents spoke of God, it was understood they spoke of the Christian God.
You’re missing the point of the 10th Amendment. There are things that are protected, thank God for the Constitution, there are also things that are not spoken of in the Constitution. Those things fall to the people and the states to decide for their own state. A state can not do anything it wants, you’re completely missing what is being said. States and Americans are GREATER then the feds. The Feds work for us and do as we tell them. Never visa versa; that’s the greatness of the balancing act of sovereignty in the USA. Each legal American is Sovereign over both the States and the Feds. The States are equal to the Feds in power. Any power not already declared to the feds, falls to the states and people to decide and enforce. The Feds are Sovereign from any other nation and are to protect the States and people from invasion or attack of any form. WE are the Kings and Queens, not the Feds.
Right Off A Cliff : You just don’t get it. States rights are not limitless. They ARE violating federal laws. Just as during segregation states tried to argue they had states rights, same during the Civil War, but you can not have a state right that violates the Constitution.
Not allowing same-sex marriage is mostly a faith-based issue. Of course you can find people who don’t believe in God that are against it, we can find people with 6 toes, doesn’t mean that’s the norm.
And just because people share a similar faith does not mean the government is allowed to pass rules taken FROM that faith. Something again you don’t understand.
If it was “understood” why didn’t they just say “Christian God”? Why didn’t they just flat-out put “The United States of America, a Christian nation”? Seriously people like you have such a weak argument.
You assume what the Founding Fathers meant on religion, yet when it comes to the 2nd Amendment you assume they’d be ok with AK-47′s and automatic weapons when at the time of writing it…it’s probably safe to ASSUME they never imagined more than a single shot rifle and pistol. But hey, that would require too much logic right?
And again, ignore the documented quotes such as the Treaty of Tripoli that directly state “in on ways is the United States founding on the Christian religion” …said BY a Founding Father.
And while the fed may work for us WE can not violate federal laws.
Bottom line…the Constitution does not state..ANYWHERE we are based upon a Christian faith, you assume it, despite the fact there are quotes from the men who created the document stating we are not.
You miss the point that states have certain rights but those rights can not violate federally protected rights.
Him: Just as before the Civil war the States are being attacked and their sovereignty threatened. The states were not then and are not now violating any part of the Constitution.
You obviously know nothing of how our laws came to be. All of American laws have been influenced by Christianity.
I do trust that they would be okay with automatic weapons that’s why I plan on buying as many as possible. I already have a nice collection started of semi-autos. Just like any other part of the Bill of Rights, the second Amendment is limitless and inalienable.
Just because one founding father thought that way doesn’t mean he was in the majority. The majority of Americans have always been Christian. That’s why our laws are all based on Christian morals.
We can change those federal laws though. We can repeal those laws as well. Just because they’re federal laws does not mean that WE can not overturn them.
Right Off A Cliff : We’re done. You..just don’t get it. When we tell someone “here’s a quote directly from a Founding Father stating our country is in no way based on the Christian religion” and they continue to argue that point..you’re simply to dense to reach.
Oh so wait…when it comes to Christianity, which they never ONCE..not even once included a line that stated we are a Christian nation you ASSUME they meant that. But when it directly states something about guns, again you assume that they simply meant all guns, because by your logic if they wanted to limit certain guns they would have just said that…right?
And wow you really don’t get what a federal law is. The Constitution, a federal document supersedes ALL laws. Thank you though for this debate we can use it as a great example of the cult like mentality of some.
But we’re done…you’re too far gone to understand the basics, or the giant hypocrisy of your statements…such as why have the Constitution in the first place if the 10th Amendment means a state can do anything they want? People without any sense of logic are amazing.